[NUMBERS IN BRACKETS REFER TO PAGE NUMBERS FROM ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT]
FIRST APPEARANCE ON THE WITNESS STAND
[227] ELSIE WHATELEY, called as a witness in behalf of the State, being first duly sworn,
testified as follows:
Direct Examination by
Mr. Wilentz:
The Court: What is the name?
Mr. Hauck: Mrs. Elsie Whateley,
your Honor.
The Court: Elsie?
Mr. Hauck: Whateley.
Mr. Wilentz: If your
Honor please, would your Honor mind indicating to us what time your adjournment hour will be?
The Court: Well, I
think we ought to at least work until
4:30.
Q. Now Mrs. Whateley,
where do you reside? A. Englewood, New Jersey.
Q. Will you speak up a
little louder particularly so that the jurors may hear you? A. Englewood, New
Jersey.
Q. And you are employed
by whom? A. Colonel Lindbergh.
Q. Colonel Lindbergh?
A. Yes.
Q. And for how long a
period have you been employed by the Lindberghs? A. Four years.
Q. When you first
procured your employment with Colonel Lindbergh where was the family residing? A. At Englewood, New Jersey.
Q. And was your
employment single or did you
[238] and
your husband join together atthat time? A. Joined together.
Q. At Englewood. A. No.
Q. Where? A. They were
at Englewood and we had to wait until
they started the home at Princeton. We had to wait two weeks.
Q. You mean then that
the first time, or when you started working for the Lindberghs you started at their Princeton home? A. Yes,
at the Princeton home.
Q. So that you and your
husband never worked at the Englewood home? A. No.
Q. Is that right? A.
Yes.
Q. In what capacity
were you and your husband employed by the Lindberghs four years ago? A. Well, I was the housekeeper and my
husband drove the car and
waited on the table and did anything that was needed around the house.
Q. How long had you
been married at that time? A. About sixteen years.
Q. Sixteen years? A.
Yes.
Q. When you took up
your employment with the Lindberghs did you have an agreement as to when you were to have your day or days
off? A. Yes, we did.
Q. Did your husband
have such an agreement, too? A. Yes, he did.
Q. And what provision
or agreement was made with reference to your time off? A. That we should go out together on the same day,
or we wouldn’t take the
position.
Q. You mean then that
whatever day it was that you were to have
off, your husband was also to have the same day off? A. Yes, together.
Q. Was that agreement
adhered to? A. Yes, it was. I would like to
state here if I may that my husband was not in the habit of taking Violet Sharpe out. (Laughter.)
[229] Mr. Wilentz: We will get to that in a minute.
The Court: This
confusion and laughter is getting to be a kind of nuisance. Unless it is stopped I shall have to have the
court house cleared. If
people want to remain here and give the Court a reasonable opportunity to
reasonably try this case they will have to keep quiet. Otherwise we will have to get along without any spectators. Now, Mr. Reilly, what is it you wanted to say?
Mr. Reilly: There was a
voluntary statement on the part
of the witness I would like to have expunged from the record and I would like to have her instructed only
to answer questions.
The Court: There was
such confusion here that I couldn’t
hear it. Let it be repeated.
(The previous question
and response were repeated.)
The Court: Of course
that is irresponsive and must be stricken out and the jury is intructed to disregard it.
Q. Now, let’s get back
again, Mrs. Whateley, please—is that the way you pronounce your name? A. No. Whateley.
Q. Whateley, all right.
No, Mrs. Whateley, during the—By the way,
when was it that your husband died? A.
It was in 1933, May.
Q. ‘33? A. Yes, in May.
[230] Q. And do you recall the month when you and your husband undertook your employment
with the Lindberghs? A. Yes,
I do, on the 16th of October, 1930.
Q. 1930? A. Yes.
Q. So that from October
1930 until May 1933, you and your husband both worked at the Lindbergh
home, first Princeton, then Hopewell? A. Yes, that is right.
Q. Were you and your
husband separate and apart, that is to say, away from each other on any one single night during those years?
A. No, only when he took Mrs.
Lindbergh to Englewood and then he usually got back about six o’clock at night.
Q. Then he would get
back at six o’clock at night? A. Yes.
Q. When you had your
day off, would your husband go, would he leave you? A. No.
Q. Or would he spend
the day with you? A. Spend the day with me.
Q. Do you mean to say,
then, during every day off, so called, during the period from October 1930 to May 1933, to the time of your
husband’s death, that every day
off you had you spent together? A. I do.
Q. Now, on March 1st,
1932, I take it, you and your husband were there at the Lindbergh home in Hopewell? A. Yes.
Q. And I suppose that
you—Will you tell us, please, the hour that you started your employment
that morning, started
your work, rather?
A. The morning of that—
Q. Yes. A. I suppose
about 7:30 in the morning.
Q. I see. About 7:30?
A. Yes.
Q. And— A. I think I
got up about six and I went to the baby and gave him some orange [231] juice and rubbed his
chest with Vick’s and put him back in the crib.
Q. About six o’clock in
the morning? A. Yes.
Q. About six o’clock in
the morning, you gave him some orange juice and rubbed his chest with Vick’s? A. Yes, I did.
Q. And the household on
that day consisted of whom? A. Mrs. Lindbergh, Mr. Whateley, the baby and myself.
Q. And until what hour?
A. Until 1:20, when Betty came down from
the Morrow home with one of the Morrow chauffeurs.
Q. About 1:30 or— A.
No, 1:20.
Q. About 1:20—when you
refer to Betty you mean Miss Betty Gow? A.
Miss Gow, yes.
Q. That is all right.
About 1:20 in the afternoon, I take it, Miss Gow came down chauffeured by one of the Morrow chauffeurs? A. Yes,
she did.
Q. Do you recall his
name? A. Henry— I don’t know his other
name; we call him Henry.
Q. Did you know the
servants at the Morrow home well at all? A. Well, not well at that time, just to say good morning, but that was
all.
Q. Did you remain at
Hopewell when the Lindberghs returned to Englewood during the week? A. Yes, we did.
Q. So that you and your
husband, as I take it, were employed regularly at Hopewell whether the Lindberghs were there or not, once you
had moved there? A. Yes.
Q. And you did not then
reside at any time at the Englewood home? A. No.
Q. Miss Violet Sharpe
never was employed at the Lindbergh home at Hopewell, was she? A. Never.
Q. Now at 1:20 when
Miss Gow came there, had she had her lunch? A. No, she had not.
[232] Q. Did she then have her lunch? A. Yes.
Q. Was the baby awake
or asleep at the time? A. I believe he was awake. I am not sure of that.
Q. Did you have lunch
with her? A. No, I did not. We had had our lunch.
Q. You had had yours.
Then at any rate the afternoon went on as I suppose it usually did around the house? A. Yes.
Q. Finally, who
arrived, if anybody else did arrive, some time that day or not? A. Well, in the afternoon, if you want to know, I
went up into the nursery about
four o’clock and we played with the baby and Mrs. Lindbergh came up and we all played with the baby. About 4:30 I
went downstairs and got some
tea. Mrs. Lindbergh came down and then
Betty came down and brought the baby. The baby went in to Mrs. Lindbergh and stayed with her while we had our tea
in the sitting room. Then the
baby came in the kitchen and said, “Hello Elsie,” and I talked to him and played with him and Betty came in and
took him upstairs and that is
the last I saw of him.
Q. What did the baby
call you? A. Elsie.
Q. That is your name?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, was the child a
playful child? A. Yes, lovely.
Q. Normal? A. Yes.
Q. Ordinarily healthy
except for slight cold? A. Yes.
Mr. Reilly: Oh, I
object to this. That has already been testified to by the father and the mother; it is only a repetition.
The Court: You make no
question about the health of the
child?
Mr. Reilly: It is
leading and it is merely suggestive and sympathetic.
[233] Mr. Wilentz: If
counsel makes no question about it I shall be delighted to refrain from asking about it.
Q. But the child did
have a little cold I think? A. Yes, he had had a cold.
Q. Now I think you took
us up to about five o’clock then, is that
correct? A. About 5:30.
Q. About 5:30, all
right. Now, tell us what happened after that as nearly as you can remember in chronological order. A. Well, when
Betty came down as near as I
can tell you it was about a quarter of eight and the Colonel hadn’t come; so my husband said that he would have his
supper first and get it over
before the Colonel came. So he went in and he had supper while I was preparing theirs, and—
Q. Your husband? A.
Yes.
Q. Your husband you are
speaking of ? A. Yes. Then I came out and Betty and I decided to have our supper. While we were eating the
Colonel came and I got up to
attend to them and the Colonel—
Q. About what time was
that, Mrs. Whateley? A. Twenty minutes past eight. The Colonel came in and he went through to Mrs. Lindbergh.
About five minutes afterwards
they came down and they came into the kitchen and they stood talking to my husband and myself a
few minutes.
Q. The Colonel and Mrs.
Lindbergh? A. Yes.
Q. Came in to the
kitchen to talk to your husband? A. Just to speak to us just for a little while. Then they went in and had dinner.
We served the dinner, and
Betty was still in our sitting room, she was reading; and then we cleared things up, and about nine o’clock Betty
and I went upstairs; I wanted
to show her something.
Q. What was it that you
wanted to show her? [234] A. Well, I had bought a
costume and I wanted her to see it.
Q. A dress you mean? A.
Yes.
Q. And you went up to
your room then? A. Yes. And Mr. Whateley
went into our sitting room; he said he would read and he went in there and he sat reading. We stayed in my room,
and we had been there a
long time, and Betty looked at her watch and she said “It’s ten o’clock, I must go to the baby.”
Q. All right. Now,
Madam, will you please just pause there for a minute? And would you mind just stepping down with me a little
while? Just step up here, please,
facing the jury and take this pointer,
please? A. (The witness steps before the map, facing the jury.)
Q. This, Madam, is the
first floor plan. Do you recognize the drawing? You haven’t seen the drawing, have you? A. No.
Q. Well, then, this is
the library (indicating)? A. Yes.
Q. You recognize now
that this is the front of the house here where it says “The first floor plan”. A. Yes, I do.
Q. And this is the
library and the living room and the dining room (indicating). A. Yes, I do.
Q. Then will you show
us where the kitchen is? A. Well, that must be the kitchen (indicating).
Q. That is the room
that is marked kitchen, isn’t that the fact? A. Yes.
Q. And you are talking
about some living room “our living room”. Now which living room do you refer to when you say “We were in our
living room”? A. Well, the one
to the rear of the house just outside the kitchen.
Q. Well, will you point
it out there? Here is the pantry here is the kitchen and here is the [235] dining room
(indicating). A. This is the kitchen (indicating).
The Court: Madam, won’t
you speak just as distinctly as
you can, and slowly? There is no hurry about this.
Q. Let me ask you, as
you come from the garage, that is in the
rear of the house, isn’t it? A. Yes.
Q. On the west side? A.
Yes.
Q. You enter into what?
A. You come into a hallway, a passageway.
Q. And the hallway
leads to what? A. Well, down this hallway was our sitting room, up the
hallway.
Q. And is that the
sitting room you are referring to? A. That is the one, yes.
Q. And is that then the
room earmarked dining room which adjoins the kitchen and the hallway? A. Yes.
Q. Which comes from the
garage. A. Yes.
Q. Now then, that
sitting room and dining room which we have referred to is separate and apart and a different dining room from the dining
room of the Lindberghs. A.
Yes.
Q. Isn’t that so? A.
Yes.
Q. Although it is in
the same house. A. Yes.
Q. So that then when
you are talking about Betty Gow being in the living room and your husband reading in the living room you
are referring. to the living room
which was provided for the household attendants. A. Yes.
Q. Is that so? A. Yes.
Q. Will you just come
back then for a minute? It was from that living room I take it that you walked up to your bedroom? A. Yes.
Q. In order to get up
to that bedroom, how did [236] you proceed? A. I went
up the staircase from the hall—
Q. I just faintly heard
you say you went up the what? A. Up the
stairs from the hall out of the sitting room.
Q. In going up the
stairs did you go to the
front of the house or
the stairs in the back of the
house, if there are
any? A. The back of the house.
Q. There are stairs in
the back of the house? A. Yes.
Q. And that is on the
west side, the side opposite from the nursery? A. Yes.
Q. When you went up the
steps with Betty Gow you went up to your room? A. Yes.
Q. And your room is the
room in the extreme rear on the second
floor, is it not? A. Yes.
Q. Will you then please
stand right there and take this pointer. Is it the extreme bedroom
indicated on this map? A. Yes,
the extreme one.
Q. The extreme bedroom
at the northwesterly corner? A. Yes.
Q. There is a bedroom
immediately adjoining to the south of it. Whose bedroom was that? A. That was Betty’s.
Q. Miss Gow’s? A. Yes.
Q. Then there is a
bathroom, I take it? A. Yes.
Q. And then there is a
hallway? A. Yes.
Q. And is it from that
hallway that you meet the staircase? A. Yes.
Q. And then downstairs?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you say you
took Miss Gow up and you exhibited the gown you were interested in? I suppose you sat around and talked? A. Yes.
Q. And that was until
ten o’clock? A. Yes.
Q. About how long do
you think that took? I mean how much time did you spend in that bedroom of yours? A. As near as I can tell you,
it was about an hour, from
nine till ten.
[237] Q. About an hour. So that you were with Miss Gow pretty nearly every minute from about
a quarter to eight, when
she came down from the nursery? A. I was.
Q. Until about ten o’clock
when she said she was going back to the
baby’s room? A. Yes, sir.
Q. Except for very
short intervals, your husband was in your presence? A. Yes, he was.
Q. Did he come up to
the room at any time? A. No, he did not.
Q. He did not. During
the day do you recall the operation in which this baby’s shirt was knitted together or sewed together? A.
Well, the only thing, Miss Gow
came down to me and asked me if I had any white thread.
Q. About what time of
the day was that? A. Well, it was during the afternoon some time, but I can’t tell you exactly.
Q. Sometime in the
afternoon? A. I couldn’t tell you the time.
Q. Sometime in the
afternoon? I am sitting back here so you will talk a little louder. A. I am sorry.
Q. She asked you for
some white thread? A. Yes. I didn’t have white. I did it with blue; I didn’t have white.
Q. What sort of a blue thread was it? A. Well, it was blue Silco, I brought it
from England.
Q. What you call Silco?
A. Yes.
Q. You say you brought
it from England? A. Yes, I did.
Q. How long had you had
it? A. Well, I must have had it three
years.
Q. And, will you take a
look at this blue silk, Silco, and tell me whether or not that is a part of the spool of thread— A. It is.
[238] Q. —that you provided for Miss Gow that afternoon? A. Yes, it is.
Q. And was it from that
spool, and that Silco that you provided that she sewed the baby’s sleeping shirt that day? A. Yes, it was.
Q. Did you see her do
it? A. I, no, I didn’t see it, but I saw her cutting it out.
Q. You saw her cutting
it out? A. Yes, I did.
Q. Mrs. Whateley, I
show you a—I am not very good at this sort
of thing, but I take it this is the gown that you referred to—is this your gown? A. Yes, it is.
Q. And it was the same
sort of blue silk thread, or Silco that you refer to that was given to Miss Gow and also used in this gown? A. Yes,
it is.
Q. From the same spool?
A. Yes.
Mr. Peacock: Let her point
it out, where it was.
The Witness: It is on
the seams.
Q. It is on the seams?
A. Yes.
Mr. Wilentz: Has
counsel any objection if I offer the dress and the thread? I offer it.
Mr. Reilly: No
objection.
The Court: It will be
admitted.
The Reporter: Two exhibits?
Mr. Wilentz: Well, I
think you better mark them separately.
The Reporter: Exhibit
S-27 and Exhibit S-28.
[239] (The thread and gown were received in evidence and marked State Exhibits S-27 and S-28.)
The Court: Mr. Attorney
General, did you offer the thread,
too?
Mr. Wilentz: Yes, if
your Honor please, and asked that they be marked separately.
The, Court: Yes.
Q. About nine o’clock,
I think it was, you said somewhere around there, that you said you went upstairs? A. Yes.
Q. I suppose that is
your best judgment at the time? A. Yes.
Q. Now, prior to going
upstairs, was there any falling of any
crate in the kitchen? A. No.
Q. Did you hear any
crate, or did you see any crate fall in the kitchen? A. No.
Q. Did anything at all
fall there ? A. No.
Q. Now, about ten o’clock
when Miss Gow left you, did you leave the
room too l A. Yes, I went along to Mrs. Lindbergh’s room.
Q. What happened there?
A. Well, I spoke to her. Do you want me to
tell you what happened?
Q. Yes, please. A.
Well, she had a slight cold and she asked me if I
would get her some lemon water and take it up to her. So I came out of the bedroom and, as I came out, I met
Betty and she asked me if Mrs.
Lindbergh was in there and I said yes. And she said, “I wonder if she wants to see the baby. I am just going in.” And
I said, “Well,” I said, “if she
wants to, she is going through the other way, because she has gone through that door.” So I went downstairs
and Betty went back into
the baby’s nursery. And I [240]
went
downstairs and I told Mr. Whateley what I was going to do. And he got up and he
put the kettle on, and I got a
lemon out and I just—
Q. You were about to
make hot lemonade? A. Yes.
Q. Is that what you
call lemon water? A. Yes.
Q. All right. A. And
just as I was cutting the lemon through, Betty came down.
Q. Yes. A. And asked
Mr. Whateley if he would go up to Colonel
Lindbergh, he wanted him, as the baby had gone.
Q. What is that? I don’t
understand you. A. Betty came down and she
asked Mr. Whateley if he would go up to
the “Colonel, as the baby had gone and he wanted him. So he went upstairs and I asked Betty what she meant, and she
said, “Why, Elsie, the baby
is gone.” And I left her and went up and saw Colonel Lindbergh and my husband standing at the top of the
stairs, and I said to the Colonel, “Where
is Mrs. Lindbergh?” And he said, “In there,”
he pointed to the baby’s nursery. And I went in and she was standing by the crib, and I stood by her.
Q. When Betty Gow said
to you the baby was gone, in what tone of
voice or manner of voice was it that she indicated it to you? A. Well, she was terribly upset, of course.
The Court: What was
that? I didn’t understand.
Q. Terribly what? A. I
say she was terribly upset.
Q. Then of course— By
the way, you came down finally, I
suppose, all of you. What did the women of the household do thereafter? A. Well, Mrs. Lindbergh and I went into
her room and I asked her to
get dressed and I [241] helped her to dress, and then Mrs.
Lindbergh and I started to search
the house and the Colonel and my husband went outside and searched around there. Then finally we came down
and went into the living
room and sat there.
Q. Who sat there? A.
Mrs. Lindbergh, Betty and I.
Q. Alone, the three of
you alone? A. The three of us alone.
Q. What did you do
there? A. Well, we didn’t do anything, just simply sat.
Q. What was Mrs.
Lindbergh doing? A. She was just sitting there.
Q. Did you talk? A. Not
much.
Q. Quite silent? A.
Yes.
Q. Tell us something
about it, you see you were there, you will have to help us. A. Well, she didn’t say anything in the living
room. As I was going around with her, she said, “
Oh, God.”
The Court: What?
The Witness: “Oh, God.”
Q. How many times did
she say that?
Mr. Reilly: I object.
Of course it is pathetic.
Mr. Wilentz: I will
withdraw the question.
Q. What time of the
night was that? A. It was about 10:30 o’clock.
Q. It was about 10:30 o’clock.
Then did you leave the room? A. We
both came downstairs together and also Betty came downstairs, the three of us.
[242] Q. The living room that you occupied during that time, where was that, on the second
floor? A. No, it was on the
ground floor.
Q. On the ground floor.
What time of the night or the next day
did you retire ? A. I think we went to bed about four o’clock in the morning.
Q. In the morning. Mrs.
Lindbergh, too? A. No, she stayed up all
night.
Q. She stayed up all
night. And Miss Gow? A. She went up with me about four o’clock.
Q. About four o’clock.
By the way, some mention or reference
was made to a dog in the house. Was there a dog in the house that night? A. Yes, there was.
Q. What sort of a dog
was it? A. A terrier, an English terrier.
Q. An English terrier.
Was he a barking dog or a quiet dog? A. Well, I always thought he was sharp, if he heard a noise, he would
bark, as a rule, but the wind
was so bad that night you couldn’t hear anything.
Mr. Reilly: I move to
strike that out. It is calling for her
conclusion.
The Court: The answer
seems not to be responsive. Mr. Wilentz
may reframe his question.
By Mr. Wilentz: Q. Did the dog bark that night between
the hours of 7:30 and 10 o’clock?
A. No, he did not.
Q. What was the
condition of the weather? A. It was very, very windy.
[243] Q. Was it so windy that you could hear the wind? A. Yes, you could.
Q. Do you know in what
room the dog was during those hours
between half past seven and ten o’clock? A. Yes, he was in our sitting room in his basket.
Q. When you are talking
about your sitting room, you are still
referring to the dining room adjoining the kitchen? A. I am, yes.
Q. That is on the extreme
westerly side of the house directly opposite from the extreme easterly side of the nursery? A. Yes.
Q. And downstairs? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. That is, the nursery
being upstairs? A. Yes.
Q. And your living room
or dining, room being downstairs? A. Yes.
Q. I think Colonel
Lindbergh told us, Madam, that your husband died
in May, 1933? A. Yes.
Q. What was the cause
of his death, if you know? A. It was a peritonitis.
Q. How long had he been
ill? A. Four days.
Q. He spent one day at
home and then three days in the hospital,
was it? A. Yes.
Q. Who was the doctor
who attended him during his last
illness? A. Dr. Belford of Princeton.
Q. Dr. Belford of
Princeton? A. Yes.
Mr. Wilentz: That is
all, Mrs. Whateley, and thank you. Take the
witness. I omitted one question.
Q. Did you hear husband
phone the police that night? A. I did.
Q. Immediately it
became known the child was [244] gone? A. Not
immediately, not until the Colonel told him.
Q. When the Colonel
told him, you heard him call the police? A. Yes, sir.
Mr. Wilentz: That is
all.
Cross examination by
Mr. Reilly:
Q. There is a
distinction, is there not, between the cry of a child in pain and the wind? A. Yes.
Q. From where you sat
in your sitting room and where Betty Gow sat with you, could you hear a cry from the nursery? A. Well, I
don’t know whether you would
with a wind like that night.
Q. Wasn’t Betty Gow
there to take care of the child? A. Yes, she was.
Q. The child’s mother
was in the house. A. Yes, she was.
Q. And the child’s
mother was nearer to the nursery than you two women were. A. Yes, she was.
Q. And at no time did
you hear the child cry? A. No.
Q. Of course the child
was well acquainted with you. A. Yes.
Q. And with Betty. A.
Yes.
Q. And its mother. A.
yes.
Q. And father. A. Yes.
Q. And your husband. A.
Yes.
Q. Is that correct? A.
Yes.
Q. And that comprised
the household. A. Yes.
Q. Now you are a
Britisher, are you? A. Yes.
Q. When did you come to
this country? A. We arrived on the 13th of
March, 1930.
Q. Had you worked
together in England? A. No, I had never done anything in England.
[245] Q. Where was the first place you worked in this country? A. For Mr. Potter, Mendham, New Jersey.
Q. Did you ever work in
New Rochelle? A. No, but we stayed there with a Miss Valinsith.
Q. You stayed where? A.
At 71 Franklin Avenue.
Q. When? A. What do you
mean, when?
Q. When did you stay in
New Rochelle? A. When we first came to
the country we went there.
Q. What year? A. 1930.
Q. Where did you stay
in New Rochelle ? A. At Mrs. Valinsitts.
Q. And how long did you
stay in New Rochelle? A. We stayed there about a month.
Q. During the summer?
A. Yes.
Q. And during the time
that you were there, did you go to the
beach? A. No.—Well, very rarely. We didn’t go much.
Q. Well, did you go to
the different islands around New Rochelle? A. No, not around, much, we didn’t go.
Q. Well, your husband
wasn’t with you every minute you were in New Rochelle? A. Yes, he was.
Q. Every minute? A.
Yes, always.
Q. Isn’t it a fact in
New Rochelle your husband became acquainted with
Dr. Condon? A. No, indeed, it was not; he
did not know Dr. Condon.
Q. Where did he first
meet Dr. Condon? A. He never met him. He saw him in the Lindbergh home; I don’t know whether he ever spoke
to him.
Q. Didn’t your husband
and you know Dr. Condon in 1931 in New Rochelle? A. No, we did not.
Q. All the servants in
the Morrow home were British, were they not? A. I don’t know anything [246] about the Morrow home; only just to visit
in the Morrow home.
Q. You were acquainted
with Violet Sharpe? A. No. Very, very
little, only to say good morning to her.
Q. You knew her? A.
Yes, just to say good morning to her.
Q. She was a Britisher?
A. I can’t help it; I didn’t know her.
Q. Was she or was she
not? A. As far as I know.
Q. She was? A. Yes.
Q. Now, did you know—if
I may refer to my notes—did you know the
name of her husband? A. No, I didn’t know she had a husband.
Q. Did you ever hear
her mention a Mr. George Payne, a Londoner? A. No, I never spoke to her. I never had any conversation with the girl
at all.
Q. Did she come to the
Hopewell house at any time? A. Yes, she did when the case was on, but we didn’t have anything to do with her.
Q. Before that did you
ever see her? A. No, never.
Q. Of course you don’t
know whether your husband knew her or not? A. I do. He did not know her, only to say Good Morning, the
same as I did.
Q. Had your husband
ever lived in London? A. No, never.
Q. What part of the
British Isle did he come from? A. We come from Birmingham in Warwickshire.
Q. I don’t suppose as
far as you know your husband was ever in London? A. I think he was there. We both had been there, but we
didn’t live there.
Q. Was he any older
than you? A. Well, about six months, I think.
[247] Q. Were you married abroad? A. No.
Q. Married here? A. In
England.
Q. In England? A. Yes.
Q. Did you ever hear
your husband mention George Payne? A. No, I did not, never.
Q. Did your husband
ever work in the Morrow home? A. No, never.
Q. Never? A. No, never.
Q. Never rendered any
service to there, at any party or function at all? A. No, never.
Q. Did you take a
dislike to Violet Sharpe? A. No, I did not. I thought she was very nice, what I knew of her, just to say Good Morning
to her.
Q. On the afternoon of
this Monday, was it? A. Of the kidnaping? Tuesday.
Q. Tuesday. Had you
expected the Colonel home for dinner? A. Yes, Tuesday night.
Q. He had not been home
on Monday? A. No.
Q. Nor on Sunday? A.
Oh, yes, he was there on Sunday.
Q. He left on Sunday,
didn’t he? A. No, he left on Monday morning.
Q. Oh, did he? Did you
have any trades people coming there with whom you were acquainted? A. Well, the only people we had there was
Werts of Hopewell and that
was a general store, you see. We got everything from there. Those were the only people that came.
Mr. Wilentz: What was
the name of the general store?
The Witness: Werts.
Mr. Wilentz: Werts?
The Witness: Yes.
[248] Mr. Wilentz: I think the juror in the rear seat cannot hear the witness at all.
The Court: Oh, yes.
Well now, madam, we will have to ask you
again to speak out loud. There is no
reason why you should not talk out loud.
The Witness: Well, I
will try to talk loud.
The Court: Just as I
talk. Now, you try it and see if you
cannot make that gentleman who sits over
there amongst these jurors, the last
man, hear what you say.
By Mr. Reilly: Q. Were you ever visited there by an
insurance man? A. No, we weren’t,
no.
Q. No insurance? A. No.
Q. You don’t know
whether Betty Gow carried any insurance? A. I believe—
Q. Local insurance, I
mean? A. No, I don’t know.
Q. That was collected
by the week or by the month? A. No, I don’t.
Q. Did you ever see an
insurance man come there? A. No, I did
not, no.
Q. You were not
insured? A. No.
Q. And your husband,
you paid no insurance for him? A. No.
Q. Now, were you
upstairs when the little baby’s chest was rubbed? A. That night?
Q. That night. A. No;
no, I was not.
Q. How long had the
baby been ill? A. Well, they came down on Saturday and on Sunday [249] morning he got a slight cold; he really wasn’t ill. It was a bad cold that he had.
Q. Well, it affected
him somewhat, did it not? A. Well, it was just a bad cold, just a bit on his chest.
Q. It did make him
cross and irritable like all children, when he had a cold? A. No, but he wasn’t very sick.
Q. I didn’t say he was
very sick. He was suffering from a slight cold? A. Yes, that was it.
Q. You were not there
when he was put to bed? A. No, I was not.
Q. Now, see if I am
correct in asking this question from your former testimony: After your husband had his dinner and stepped into his
reading room—or what did you
call it? A. Our sitting room, it was called.
Q. Sitting room? A.
Yes.
Q. And until then—or
rather, you and Betty went upstairs to your room? A. Yes.
Q. He was not in your
sight? A. No.
Q. You did not see him
again, did you, until Betty came downstairs and said, “The baby is gone”? A. You mean when Betty came
downstairs?
Q. Yes. A. I saw him
when I came down to get the hot lemon
water.
Q. Yes, but a few
minutes after Betty followed you down? A. Yes.
Q. How long were you
and Betty out of the sight and presence of your husband that night? A. From about nine till ten o’clock; just
an hour.
Q. Now, your husband
enjoyed good health, did he not? A. Yes.
Q. Before that? A. Yes,
he did.
Q. At what part, when
was your husband stricken, what month?
A. It was in May.
[250] Q. What year? A. In 1933.
Q. About a year after
this? A. 1934, I think.
Q. This year? A. No,
1933.
Q. 1933? A. Yes.
Q. A year after this
happened? A. Yes.
Q. Where were you
living then? A. Well, we were at Hopewell still.
Q. Hopewell? Was the family
in residence then? A. No, they were
at Englewood.
Q. They were at
Englewood? A. Yes.
Q. And how long had
they been at Englewood? A. Well, they went there after the baby, everything was settled about the baby.
Q. And left you in
control of the house? A. Yes.
Q. As caretaker, is
that correct? A. Yes.
Q. Were you visited
shortly before your husband was taken ill by Department of Justice men from Washington? A. Well, you see I was
away at the time, I was in
England, I had been in England three months.
Q. When did you go to
England? A. I went, I sailed on March 10th.
Q. March the 10th? A.
Yes.
Q. Then, every night,
as you have answered the learned Attorney General during your lifetime you have not been with
your husband, have you? A. Well, apart from that.
Q. Well, apart from
that, well let’s hear about that now. When did you sail from England? A. I sailed on the 10th of March and came
back on the 23rd of May.
Q. Did you sail with
Betty Gow? A. No, I sailed alone.
Q. When she did sail
did you take her to the ship? A. Yes, I did.
Q. And when she arrived
in this country you were the first one
there to meet her, weren’t you? A. Yes.
[251] Q. And she is a Britisher too, isn’t she? A. Yes.
Q. Did you see her in
England while you were there? A. No.
Q. Have any contact
with her at all? A. No.
Q. You know she has a
sister, don’t you? A. No. Oh, yes, her sister is in Scotland.
Q. Yes. Did you see her
sister? A. No, I don’t know any of them.
Q. Did you meet her
sister when you were in London? A. No.
Q. Where did you spend
the three months when you were in England? A. At my home in Birmingham.
Q. Where did your
husband live during those three months so far as you know? A. At Hopewell.
Q. And you don’t know
whether he was visited a few days before his sudden attack of peritonitis by
Department of Justice men, do you? A. No, I really don’t know.
Q. He died while you
were abroad? A. When I was coming home, yes.
Q. When you were coming
home? And the cause, they told you
was peritonitis? A. Yes.
Q. But, before that he
had always been a healthy man? A. Yes, he had.
Mr. Reilly: That is
all.
Mr. Wilentz: That is
all, thank you,
Mr. Reilly: Just a
minute.
Mr. Fisher: All right,
Mr. Wilentz.
Mr. Wilentz: Counsel
suggests to opposing counsel that, it being 4:24, not that we [252] are not ready, if your Honor please, or anxious to work, but we feel that we
would just about get started
with the next witness, and it would be an important one, and we would ask your Honor to consent to our agreement that we adjourn at this time.
The Court: Well,
perhaps that had better be done. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, it has been determined that, all things
considered, it is better to adjourn
tonight until Monday morning at ten o’clock. One moment. Let the people — one moment. Cannot the people endure this thing now for a minute or two? So that we will ask you to go in the custody
of your officers and return here on Monday morning at ten o’clock. In the meantime, bear in mind that you are not
to visit any public
assembly where talking is going on, so that you would necessarily hear it. Take plenty of exercise in the open
air, as you wish; come back
here on Monday morning at ten o’clock.
Now, you may retire,
and the people will allow the jury to pass
out.
The Court: The prisoner
will now be remanded to the custody of the Sheriff and we will take a recess until ten o’clock
Monday morning. Court will now
be adjourned.
(At 4:27, court room
time, the further trial of the case was
adjourned until Monday morning next, January 7, 1935, at ten o’clock.)
SECOND APPEARANCE ON THE WITNESS STAND
[1971] ELSIE WHATELEY recalled as a witness in
behalf of the State:
Direct Examination by
Mr. Wilentz: Madam, I forgot to ask
you one or two questions the last time you were on the stand, particularly with reference to the thumb guard which
is in this case.
Mr. Wilentz: Have you
got it, Captain?
Q. Will you tell us whether or not you were in company of Miss Betty Gow on a walk one day after this crime? A. Yes, sir, I was.
Q. Do you remember the
date that you and Miss Gow found the thumbguard? A. It was about a month
after the kidnaping.
Q. It was about a month
after the kidnaping? A. Yes.
Q. Where? Tell us the
circumstances, please. A. We were going down the drive.
Q. Just a little
louder. A. I have a cold.
Q. I know you have a
cold. Do the best you can, but try to speak a little louder. A. We were taking a walk down the drive in the afternoon
about 3:30.
Q. Down where? A. Down
the drive.
Q. Down the drive? A.
Yes, sir.
Q. When you refer to
the drive do you mean the Lindbergh drive? A. Yes, I do.
Q. From the home to the
public road? A. Yes.
Q. How far did you
walk? A. We went down to the gate.
Q. To the gate? A. Yes.
Q. And is that the gate
that all of us have referred to as being the gate house which is right near the public lane? A. Yes, sir.
[1972] Q. So that, as I understand it, you
walked from the house to the gate?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. That is the entire
distance to the public road? A. Yes, that is right.
Q. All right. And then
what did you do? Did you get out on the public road? A. No.
Q. Or did you start to
walk back? A. We started to walk back.
Q. Yes, ma'am. And what
happened? A. About a hundred yards
from the gate we saw this object lying on the ground.
Mr. Wilentz: Will you
repeat that, please, Mr. Reporter?
(Last answer read by
the reporter.)
Q. When you say a hundred yards, do you mean on your way back? A. On our way back,
yes.
Q. Yes. And what
happened to it then? A. Well, we both saw it there and Miss Gow picked it up.
Q. Miss Gow picked it
up? A. Yes, we both looked at it of course.
Mr. Wilentz: Have you
got it here, Captain Snook?
Q. Well, is that the
thumb guard that was produced in evidence the other day when you were here when Miss Gow was on the stand? A. Yes,
it was.
Q. Now, directing your
attention specifically to the hour, I think it was between approximately nine o'clock and approximately ten o'clock on
the night of the crime, the night
of the kidnaping, the night that the child was taken, you recall that both you and Miss Gow testified you were up in
your room. A. Yes.
[1973] Q. With the lights on. A. Well, I put the
light on when I went into my
room.
Q. Did it remain on
during the entire time that you were there? A. Yes, the whole time, and when we came out of the room I switched it off.
Q. Was that the first
time the light was switched off after you once got in there? A. That was the first time.
Q. Mrs. Whateley, do
you recognize this, Exhibit S-39? A. Yes, I do.
Q. Do you recognize it
sufficiently so you can tell whose it is? A. Well, it belonged to Mrs. Lindbergh and it came down with the baby's clothes
in.
Q. Is this Exhibit S-39
the suitcase that was in the baby's nursery that night? A. Yes, it is.
Q. And is that the one
shown by all the exhibits as being on top? A. That is the one.
Q. Near the window
sill? A. Yes.
Mr. Wilentz: If your
Honor will bear with me just one moment.
The Court: Very well.
Q. I show you Exhibit
S-11. Does Exhibit S-11 show the nursery window, the southeast
nursery window? A. Yes, it
does; there it is.
Q. That is the only
window shown on S-11, is it not? A. Yes.
Q. I notice a suitcase.
Tell me whether or not that is the suitcase which is Exhibit—Mr. Rosecrans,
will you please take a look at that exhibit number?
Mr. Rosecrans: 39.
Q. S-39 for Identification.
A. Yes, that is the suitcase.
[1974] Q. That is the suitcase? A. Yes.
Q. Which is S-29 for Identification? A. Yes.
Mr. Wilentz: I offer
the suitcase in evidence.
Mr. Reilly: No
objection.
The Court: No
objection. It will be admitted.
(S-39 for
Identification, suitcase now received in evidence and marked State Exhibit
S-214.)
Mr. Wilentz: You may
take the witness.
Cross-Examination by
Mr. Reilly: Q. Now, about the
lights, Mrs. Whateley; you said that you went upstairs to your room— A. Yes.
Q. —as you have
indicated here at the far wing. A. Yes.
Q. With Betty Gow. A.
Yes.
Q. About what time? A.
About nine o'clock.
Q. You left your
husband— A. Downstairs.
Q. —in the kitchen? A.
No, in the sitting room.
Q. Or the reading room off the kitchen? A.
Yes.
Q. He was reading? A.
Yes.
Q. Lights were in his
room? A. Yes.
Q. Lights on in the
kitchen? A. Yes.
Q. Do you know where
the Colonel was then? Was he on the main floor? A. Well, that I couldn't tell.
Q. The lights were on
on the main floor? A. Yes, they were.
Q. As you came up the
stairs did you come up the rear stairs or
front stairs? A. Oh, the rear stairs.
[1975] Q. As you came to the second floor was
there a hall light? A. Yes,
there was a hall and the light was on.
Q. Any lights in Mr.
Lindbergh's apartment? A. That I couldn't tell you.
Q. A light in the
bathroom? A. That I couldn't tell you.
Q. Isn't there a
bathroom between the nursery and Mr. Lindbergh's
apartment? A. Yes, but I wasn't anywhere near there.
Q. You knew nothing
about the lights there? A. No.
Q. You had the first
floor well lighted up? A. Yes.
Q. The second floor you
know nothing about? A. No.
Q. The third floor, was
there a light in the hall? A. There was a light on the second floor in our apartment.
Q. Turn around here,
Mrs. Whateley. A. Yes.
Q. I take it these are
the stairs you came up (indicating on a diagram on the wall) ? A. Yes.
Q. Any lights along
this corridor? A. One in the corridor, yes.
Q. Where would that be?
A. Back by the bathroom.
Q. Right here in the
cellar? A. Yes.
Q. A dome light? A.
Just an ordinary bulb with no shade on it.
Q. In the ceiling? A.
Yes, in the ceiling.
Q. And it lighted up
this corridor sufficiently?
A. Yes, it did.
Q. So people could walk
along? A. Yes.
Q. Were there any
lights along this corridor before you got to your home ? A. That is the corridor I was speaking about.
Q. Well, now, here is
your room, is that correct? A. Yes.
[1976] Q. How many lights in that room? A. There is one, only one, the ceiling light.
Q. How many windows? A.
Three.
Q. No shutters? A. No.
Q. Now, what is this
room (indicating)? A. The one next to mine?
Q. The bedroom? A. Well, that was Miss Gow's room.
Q. Was there a light in
there? A. No.
Q. Now, is this a
hallway? A. Yes, that is a hallway.
Q. Was there a light
there? A. Just the one that I told you.
Q. One window there? A.
Yes—there were two.
Q. Now, this corridor
outside the nursery, the bedroom— A. Well, that I couldn't tell you, I was not—
Q. You didn't turn
there to look? A. No.
Q. When did you first
come into that corridor that night? A. When I went along to Mrs. Lindbergh's room at ten o'clock.
Q. Was there a light in
the corridor then? A. Yes, sir.
Q. When you went to
Mrs. Lindbergh's room— A. Yes.
Q. —was there a light
in her room? A. Yes.
Q. Yes. Now, can you give us the exact date
this thumb guard was found?
A. Well, I should think about the 29th or 30th, I can't tell you just exactly.
Q. 29th of what? A. Of
March.
Q. 29th of March? A.
Yes.
Q. That is your best
recollection? A. Yes, it is.
Q. You didn't write it
down? A. No.
Q. Now let's go back to
March 1st as to the weather, that was
rather wet and soggy and muddy, wasn't it? A. Yes, it was.
Q. How was it on the 2nd of March?
[1977] Mr. Wilentz: Well, this isn't proper
cross-examination. I have no particular objection.
Mr. Reilly: It goes to
the finding of the mud guard which she
brought out.
Mr. Wilentz: I withdraw
it then. I think you are right.
Mr. Reilly: Or the thumb
guard again.
A. I think if I
remember, it turned colder and was freezing.
Q. When? A. On the 2nd
it turned cold as near as I can remember.
Mr. Reilly: Coming down
here I had a smashup, on my first
visit to Flemington. The mudguard is in my mind, because I had to pay for it, so I have got to excuse myself
every now and then for thinking
of that accident.
Mr. Wilentz: That is
all right.
Mr. Reilly: We will
call it thumbguard in the future.
Q. Now you say it
started to freeze? A. I think it did; as far as I can remember, it turned cold,
anyway.
Q. I suppose you had
the usual March weather? A. Yes.
Q. It would freeze
today? A. Yes.
Q. And be cold for two
or three days, and then there would be a sort of a thaw and fog up there in the mountain? A. Yes.
Q. And then the land
would get soft and soggy, is that it? A. Yes.
[1978] Q. Then would come another freezing
spell? A. Yes.
Q. Typical March
weather, is that what you call it? A. Yes.
Q. And this particular
road, you agree with Betty Gow that it was a gravel road—wasn't it? A. Yes, it was.
Q. And it ran from the home, as it is
indicated here, down to the
gateway, is that it? A. Down to the gatehouse, yes.
Q. The gatehouse? A.
Yes.
Q. Now is that gate
house large enough—does it correspond with the English gatekeeper's house? Is it that large, or is it just a
guardhouse? A. Why, it is just an old farm
house.
Q. A farm house? A.
Yes, just a farm house.
Q. And that is down at
what you call the gate house, is that right? A. Yes, the end of the drive.
Q. The end of the
drive? A. Yes.
Q. That had been there
very likely before the Lindberghs built the Hopewell house? A. Why it had, yes.
Q. How long was that
drive, would you say, from the Lindbergh home down to the gate house? A mile? A. I should think it was nearly a
mile.
Q. Nearly a mile? A.
Yes.
Q. Now of course you
were on duty every day, weren't you?
A. Yes.
Q. After the kidnaping
down to—on duty now? A. Yes.
Q. Is that right? A.
Yes.
Q. Now there were a
great number of people that came there? A. Yes, that is right.
Q. After the kidnaping,
is that correct? A. Yes.
Q. There were State
Police? A. Yes.
Q. Detectives,
reporters? A. Yes.
Q. Curiosity seekers
and everything else? A. Yes.
[1979] Q. Now how wide is this particular path?
As wide as from here to
the railing or wider? A. I should think it is about from where I am to the
railing.
Q. I see. From there
across? A. Yes.
Q. About 10 or 12 feet? A. Yes.
Q. Sufficiently wide
for an automobile to ride down? A. Yes.
Q. Was it a roadway
that automobiles went down? A. Yes, it was.
Q. And automobiles used
that driveway, did they, during or right after the kidnaping? A. Yes.
Q. Bringing police and
bringing different people there? A. Yes, to get up to the house.
Q. Now will you tell us
just about where it was on the 29th of March that you picked up this
thumbguard? A. It was about 100 yards from the gate.
Q. Now in relation to
the width of the gravel, was it in the center? A. Yes, it was right in the center.
Q. Right in the center?
A. Yes.
Q. And it was—
Mr. Wilentz: (As the
Court steps to chart on the wall) : That is not the map, if your Honor please. That is a map of the Bronx. If your Honor wants, we will remove it.
The witnesses have already
indicated it.
The Court: I wanted to
make sure that I understood the
testimony of the witness. Was it inside the Lindbergh property where you found this thumbguard?
The Witness: Yes,
inside, about a hundred yards.
The Court: Yes. All
right.
[1980] Q. How is the entrance to the Estate
indicated beside this gate house?
Is there a chain? A. No, they just had a rough wooden plank across, I would say about six inches wide; you lifted it
up and down.
Q. Before the kidnaping
there was no gate or chain? A. No, nothing.
Q. Or policeman or
anybody there? A. No.
Q. You just drove right in? A. That is right.
Q. And after the
kidnaping you say they put a plank across? A. Just a plank, yes.
Q. And then they had
guards at that gate? A. Yes.
Q. About what time of
the day was it? A. I should think about 3:30, as near as I can tell you.
Q. Daylight? A. Yes.
Q. You just walked
along, you and Betty, on this road? A. Yes, we did.
Q. Taking a stroll there on the 29th of March or thereabouts? A. Yes, we did.
Q. And lying in the
center of this gravel path, so that you could see it— A. Yes.
Q. —was this thumb
guard? A. Yes.
Q. Which she bent down
and picked up? A. Yes.
Q. Did you see her bend
down and pick it up? A. Yes, I did. I was with her.
Q. Who saw it first? A.
We both saw it together, about the same time.
Q. You both reached for it at the same time?
A. Yes, sir; we did.
Q. You both reached
together? A. Yes, we did.
Mr. Reilly: That is
all.
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