STATE
vs. HAUPTMANN
January
8, 1935
[548]
P. MILTON GAGLIO, sworn as a witness
on behalf of the State:
Direct Examination by Mr. Wilentz: Q. In March, 1932, where did you
reside, sir? [549] A. 2856 University Avenue, Borough of the Bronx.
Q.
How long have you been living in the Bronx? A. Twenty-seven years.
Q.
Do you still live there? A. I do.
Q.
And what means did you follow for a livelihood in those days? A. Clothing
store.
Q.
What has your occupation been since? A. Salesman.
Q.
What sort of a salesman? A. Clothing.
Q.
Did you know Dr. John F. Condon at the time? A. I did.
Q.
Did you know Mr. Reich, Al Reich? A. I did.
Q.
You did not at that time know Colonel Lindbergh, did you? A. No, I did
not.
Q.
Or Colonel Breckinridge? A. No.
Q.
Now, sometime in March, 1930, and prior thereto were you a friend of Dr.
Condon? A. An acquaintance.
Q.
Did you have occasion to be at his home sometime in March, 1932? A. I did.
Q.
When? A. That was right after or a few days after the time I had been
obliged to drive Dr. Condon to the Lindbergh home.
Q.
Did you drive Dr. Condon to the Lindbergh home? A. I did.
Q.
Do you remember when that was? A. It was in March, the early part of
March; the exact date I wouldn’t dare say; I don’t remember.
Q.
At whose instance was it that you drove Dr. Condon to the Lindbergh home? A. I
offered to.
Q.
Tell us about the circumstances, where were you at the time? A. I was in a
restaurant.
Q.
Whose restaurant? A. Mr. Rosenhain’s restaurant. It is located at the
Concourse and 188th Street.
Q.
What day of the week was it and what time of the day? A. That I couldn’t
say. It was in the [550] evening, close to midnight.
Q.
And were you there by any appointment with Dr. Condon or anybody connected with
him? A. No, I made it a practice to go in there evenings, when I was on my
way home and have a sandwich and cup of coffee. I knew the proprietor and we
used to kill time sitting around.
Q.
Was it a sort of hangout for the men living around there? A. That is what
you would call it.
Q.
And you stopped in there incidentally: is that right? A. Yes.
Q.
That night you met Dr. Condon there? A. He came in some time after I had
been there.
Q.
While you were there? A. That is right.
Q.
What did he do when he got in there? A. Well, somehow or other mention was
made about Dr. Condon—
Mr.
Pope: We object, your Honor.
Mr.
Wilentz: I will try to regulate it, if your Honor please. Do you mind, Mr.
Pope?
Mr.
Pope: No conversation.
Q.
While you were there, what did Dr. Condon do; not what he said? A. He
called the Lindbergh home.
Q.
He made a telephone call? A. Yes, sir.
Q.
As a result of that telephone call, what happened as far as you were concerned?
A. He was looking for Al Reich.
Q.
Al Reich was not there, was he? A. He wasn’t there. His purpose in
locating Al Reich—
Mr.
Pope: No, I object to it. The Court: Objection sustained.
[551]
Q. Not the purpose, but as the result of the incident there were you requested
by anybody or did you offer to drive Dr. Condon? A. I offered to drive Dr.
Condon.
Q.
And to where? A. To the Lindbergh home.
Q.
That was after he had made a telephone call? A. That is right.
Q.
And did you drive Dr. Condon? A. I did. Q. Who else was in the party? A. Mr.
Rosenhains.
Q.
And when you proceeded along the Bronx to the Lindbergh home, did you go in
your car? A. I did.
Q.
Who sat in the front seat with you? A. Mr. Rosenhains.
Q.
And who sat in the back? A. Dr. Condon.
Q.
Alone? A. That is right.
Q.
As you proceeded along an your trip how did you happen to find the Lindbergh
home? A. Well, we had a little trouble finding it and we finally called
for directions and—
Q.
Who called for the directions? A. I don’t remember.
Q.
But somebody did? A. Yes.
Q.
And were you directed from time to time? A. We finally landed in
Princeton.
Q.
Yes? A. And from there a restaurant proprietor directed us to Hopewell,
and on our way we were met by several cars and they escorted us to the
Lindbergh home.
Q.
So that somewhere from Princeton into the Lindbergh home, automobilists
escorted you in. A. That is right.
Q.
Now, when you got to the Lindbergh home did you go in? A. I did.
Q.
Who else went in, all of you? A. Three of us.
Q.
When you got there did you talk to Colonel Lindbergh or did Dr. Condon? A. Later
in the eve- [552] ning I said a few words to Colonel Lindbergh, but that is
all.
Q.
Did the Colonel greet you? A. Later on he come down, he was upstairs at
the time when I arrived.
Q.
I see. Now, afterwards, I take it, did you return that evening or early that
morning? A. Returned early that morning.
Q.
And when you returned, with whom did you return? A. Mr. Rosenhain.
Q.
Did you leave Dr. Condon there? A. We did.
Q.
Did he remain there overnight, therein, so far as you know? A. That is
right.
Q.
And he, at that time, then you and Mr. Rosenhain returned to the Bronx? A. That
is right.
Q.
Now, after that day or that night or that morning, did you have occasion again
to—did you have occasion to be in the Condon home? A. I did.
Q.
When? A. It was the Saturday, I think the date was the 12th.
Q.
I see. Were you in the Condon home when a man by the name of Perrone drove up
to the Condon home? A. I was.
Q.
Where were you? A. I was in the upper floor.
Q.
What did you do that night with reference to Perrone? A. After Dr. Condon
accepted the note I checked with Perrone’s identity.
Q.
What do you mean, you checked? A. He had given his name, and I took his
shield number from the tag he was wearing on his chest.
Q.
What else did you do? A. I went out to his car and verified it with the
identification card within the cab.
Q.
What else, if anything, did you do, did you take his license number? A. I
did.
Q.
I see. What did you do with that information? A. I kept it.
Q.
Until when? A. Until several members of the [553] police department were
insistent about getting it and then I turned it over.
Q.
Police department? What department, New York, New Jersey or Federal? A. New
York.
Q.
New York. Mr. Gaglio, that is all.
Mr.
Wilentz: You may inquire, sir.
Cross-Examination by Mr. Reilly: Q. How long have you known Dr.
Condon? A. Many years.
Q.
By the way, what is he a doctor of? A. I couldn’t tell you.
Q.
Is that a nickname given in the neighborhood? A. I don’t think it was a
nickname.
Q.
Is he a doctor of medicine? A. I couldn’t say. I know he has many degrees.
One of them may entitle him to that name.
Q.
Did you ever see them? A. No.
Q.
Did you ever read on the wall of his room “Doctor?” A. I have seen many of
the degrees in his home.
Q.
Have you ever seen a doctor’s degree as well? A. I didn’t take particular notice.
Q.
You are there quite frequently, are you? A. No.
Q.
How frequently have you been there in the last year? A. I think I have
made two visits to his home.
Q.
How frequently in 1933? A. I don’t think I have been there in 1933.
Q.
How frequently in 1932? A. Twice.
Q.
How long did you know him before this night in the restaurant? A. I have
known him maybe 10 or 12 years.
Q.
This restaurant is on 125th Street, isn’t it? A. 188th Street.
Q.
And is it known as Rosie’s? A. That’s right.
Q.
Open all night, is it? A. Usually.
[554]
Q. Did you ever know a man named John Babu to hang out there, frequent the
place? A. I never knew him.
Q.
Now Dr. Condon, on this particular night that you say he came into the
restaurant, did you know that he had a phone in his own house? A. I didn’t
know him that well.
Q.
After your first visit to his house did you see a phone? A. That’s right.
Q.
How many miles was Dr. Condon’s home that evening in March away from Rosie’s
restaurant? A. I wouldn’t be in a position to say how many miles. It is
about a five-minute ride in an automobile.
Q.
How long to walk? A. About 20 minutes.
Q.
Twenty minutes walk. Did you know Al Reich? A. I did.
Q.
Before that? A. That’s right.
Q.
How long did you know him? A. Five or six years.
Q.
How does he spell his name, Reich? A. I think it is R-e-i-c-h, I am not
sure.
Q.
It isn’t Ricci, is it, as far as you know? A. As far as I know.
Q.
Reich, R-e-i-c-h. Now did you hear Dr. Condon call the number from Rosie’s
restaurant? A. I don’t think so.
Q.
About what time did he come in? A. About midnight.
Q.
Had you ever seen him before? A. Surely.
Q.
So that you knew who it was? A. Yes.
Q.
Now, isn’t it a fact that he called from Rosie’s Restaurant, he called Colonel
Lindbergh’s home? A. So I understand.
Q.
Yes. He didn’t give any explanation why he didn’t call from his own home, did
he? A. He had no occasion to give me any explanation of that.
Q.
And you never asked him why he didn’t call—A. No, sir.
[555]
Q. Colonel Lindbergh’s home from his own home, did you? A. No, sir.
Q.
You didn’t ask him why at midnight he called Colonel Lindbergh’s home from
Rosie’s all-night restaurant, did you? A. He made it a practice of coming
in to Rosenhain’s about that time for a sandwich and a cup of coffee.
Q.
Where was the telephone in Rosie’s Restaurant? A. Toward the rear of the
restaurant.
Q.
In a booth? A. That is right.
Q.
How long after he sent the telephone call did you start for Hopewell? A. A
few minutes.
Q.
Did you know the road? A. I did not.
Q.
Now, as you proceeded—you had never been to Hopewell before, had you? A. That
is right.
Q.
Did you know anything about Jersey? A. Very little.
Q.
And this was midnight? A. That is right.
Q.
Now, how did you proceed from New York into Jersey? A. I couldn’t tell you
that.
Q.
You don’t remember, do you? A. We asked directions as we—
Q.
No, no, no. A. All right.
Q.
I want your recollection. A. I couldn’t tell you.
Mr.
Wilentz: Please let him give the answer.
Mr.
Reilly: Well, he says he doesn’t know.
Mr.
Wilentz: Yes—
The
Court: Well, he wants to say that he asked for directions from time to time.
Mr.
Reilly: All right.
[556]
Q. Did you ask anybody in New York how to get to Jersey? A. I did not.
Q.
Did you go through the tube? A. No, the Washington Bridge.
Q.
The Washington Bridge. Now, after you got over there who directed you? A. As
I said, we asked total strangers or policemen, or anyone we could find from
time to time.
Q.
You didn’t take down their numbers, did you? A. No.
Q.
Isn’t it a fact that Dr. Condon directed you around the road? A. He did
not.
Q.
But at some certain point in the road weren’t you met by State Troopers? A. That
is right.
Q.
And it wasn’t all people in automobiles just driving by that directed you from
Princeton to Hopewell, but you were met by a fleet of State Troopers in.
Princeton? A. I made—
Q.
On motorcycles, is that right? A. I made a call from Princeton, notifying
them that we were in Princeton, and they gave us general directions toward
Hopewell and told us they would meet us, and I gave them, or someone, whoever
made the call, I don’t remember exactly, gave them our license number and the
name of the car, and from that we were picked up on the way, because, if I
remember correctly, we had lost our way several times.
Q.
Several times. So that you got to Colonel Lindbergh’s about two o’clock? A. I
don’t remember.
Q.
Several times. You got to Colonel Lindbergh’s about two o’clock? A. I don’t
remember.
Q.
How long did you stay? A. Probably an hour.
Q.
Is that the only time you went out there? A. That is the only time.
Q.
You are in the clothing business, is that correct? A. That is correct.
[557]
Q. What date was it? A. The date of what?
Q.
The ride. A. I don’t remember. I never made a note of it.
Q.
Well, you made a note of everything else, you made a note of Perrone’s license
and checked it up and put it in your pocket. A. I had a reason for that.
Q.
I did not ask you what your reasons were. A. I didn’t make any note of any
date.
Q.
It did not stand out in your mind that it was unusual that Dr. Condon was going
out to Colonel Lindbergh’s house at midnight, did it? A. Certainly it was
unusual.
Q.
You did not think of jotting down that date. A. I did not.
Q.
Nobody has told you to forget the date, have they? A. No.
Q.
Who showed you the way home? A. I don’t think anyone showed us the way
home.
Q.
Did you drive back to Princeton? A. I don’t remember, I know we came
through the tube on the way home.
Q.
As far as you remember then, nobody directed you to the right roads home, is
that right? A. I may have asked on the way, but I don’t recall.
Q.
Your memory is not quite clear on that, is it? A. No.
Mr.
Reilly: That is all.
Mr.
Wilentz: That is all, sir—oh, just a minute.
Q.
Just one question. In going from New York to Hopewell, Condon didn’t give you
the directions in New Jersey, did he? A. No.
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